i have read part of this topic and it does seem to create pretty picture for potential outdoor ed instructors

especially as an employer there are actually companies out there that are doing something about creating a award system and better working conditions for people

but of course its the companies fault

if you would like to know more let me know

Hi there
I have been following this for a little while now, and have a look at whats been going on.

As the HR person in a company, I am passionate about improving all of  the above.  At present in our state we have been working on this issue for quite a while now, have been in discussions with workplace services and will be having a working group with some other companies/small businesses in the private sector, should be interesting. 

What we are trying to do is put together several options that stanadise pay and conditions (for our state only at this stage).  As it seems to be all over the place, in every state.  This will not be through an award, this being that they are very expensive to formulate and are very '80s.  It still seems that even if you do have an award, some people just don't follow them, i.e. the diving instructor award.

We are working on something called an awa, more up to date, easy to understand and has some flexibility.  Australian workplace agreement.  Several options that employees and the employers can chose from.  This will be put through as an industry standard, that if proffessional bodies want to comply, for insurance reasons they will have to comply with the pay and conditions with their instructors.  I believe most companies have good intentions and are trying to improve, or should be.  But there is only so much you can do as one company otherwise you can outprice yourself out of the market and lose it to another. 

One of my goals is not only to improve pay and conditions but also to improve the security for instructors.

Out of interest, if you are a freelance instructor, how many get asked to be independent contractors (no super, workcover, insurance cover).  Do people pay more than usual in this case, to compensate, or just do it dodgey??

Just so you know as well we sometimes just get asked to organise some qualified instructors, not the whole package.  Add on their pay and allowances, super etc.. and pretty much about half of them, turn around and say it is too expensive.  So someone must be taking on the work and getting paid poorly.  I believe that experienced instructors need to educate the uni and tafe students (or the one that just come out) about lifting the professional standards.  You could say that we as a company are competing with young instructors willing to take anything for the experience.

This ultimately affects you guys as the under experienced, underqualified people are reducing your work and your pay. 

All people that use our industry are going to have to get used to paying a little bit more for our professional services.  Companies aren't against you, there with you guys, I hope.  If you want to do something educate the young people that are coming out that its a great field to work in, it is a career and not a hobby.  And to get some guts when clarifying the money and responsibilities (the hours and workload expected) before they take on the work.

???

After spending about 45 minutes straight reading this topic, i can only say that for the first time throughout the last two years of my CERT IV at TAFE i have begun to have doubts upon the true availability of QUALITY employment.
     Now before i am convinced of changing now (no way) i haven't yet read all of the discussion board. I begin to have doubts about wether i want to.
    I have been told several times by different people that the available work is there and is ready to be taken.
Am i willing? Y
Am i able? Y
Is it worth it? There is only one way to find out.
If it all is true, i can say that the shine is no longer there, The appeal but not the shine... and that is what brings so many young people to work this industry

Happy office working...
Avalanche77

P.S.   How are the young ones going to get there experience of leading etc, if there is no one left in the industry to pass it on??

1 more quick thing, Johnsy did you use to run the TAFE course at a Tafe on the Peninsula (or close by)?
I think I have heard about you (good things)
Cheers

gday to johnsy & everyone that has written, and read on this notice board. out of interest what state are most of you from?
I have just read a fair bit of this discussion. i have worked in the industry, only around the edges, in both aus and the uk. what has been said is mostly true in my opinion, however it sure beats the hell out of putting small bottles in a cardboard box in a warehouse for 9 hours a day for the same amount of money, or working in a pub from 7 pm to 5 in the morning, breathing in everyone's cigarette smoke and dealing with pissed idiots. and hey if it all goes to @*#! there is always the option of writing a book about how bad it was and how you saved the day, and then retire and spend the rest of your life sitting on the couch watching telly.

I have come into the Outdoor ED indusrty later in life having spent over 10 years in the computer industry. What I have found is that the money and employers seem to drive any industry. As with the Computer industry many employers are out to 'screw' there staff. It is often the larger employers that are doing the 'screwing' too.
Having said that there seems to be a lot of people getting employed who just accept the often very low pay so employers get away with these practices. Although I never expect to get rich quick from this industry I don't see that I (or any one else) should have to live near the poverty line just to do what we love.
I believe I had a large O/D ed organisation was shocked when I declined an offer of employment when I pointed out the real rate of pay over a year to be some what below $20,000. This was going to decrease my standard of livivng some what and I don't believe that there was ever going to be an optiunity with in this company to every get to stage of getting a deposit on a house.
My point is that although there is an abundance of people to work in the industry no one should sell them selves short on very low pay or working conditions. Make sure you have enough money to live on (not just to survive) and a life out side work as well (seven day weeks = burn out, burn outs = costly errors).

you guys spend too much time sitting in front of your computers debating or bitching about @*#! .
if you dont enjoy it go and do something else .
you spend too much time in your working life to be wasting it here.
surfs up