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Comes a Time (Read 17,849 times)

mungo

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adelaide
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Re: Comes a Time
Reply #90 - Jan 20^th, 2004 at 5:23pm

if something is really bugging you why don't you stop bitching about it and get out there and do something about it.
i reckon that you guys spend a bit too much time complaining about the industry, if it is really so bad for you then sack it off and go have meaningful career as a high court judge and toss all the wankers out of court who try to sue everyone when they fall over and hurt themselves. that way the industry wins both ways. there are less court cases = lower insurance rates(theoretically anyway) = more money stays in the industry = more pay more instructors/leaders/guides.
i know this probably issn't the best spot to list this but i just hadd the best massage from a guy called dave wilson in portland, vic. if you are around go get on.

www.southozadventurers.com

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jaan

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Re: Comes a Time
Reply #91 - Mar 6^th, 2004 at 12:01pm

I found this message board looking for some info on an up-coming trip to tassie... wow! I am an ex elite swim-coach, and the aquatics industry mirrors many of the issues raised in this forum.... poor pay, poor conditions, lack of recognition etc etc. I'm luck in that i managed to get casual TAFE lecturing and now work for a uni.

It boils down to a couple of key issues:

* What value people put on the service we provide

* What price we demand for our services as professionals

Slowly in coaching, young coaches are simply not applying for and refusing to take low paying or part-time jobs. This is a good thing for the sport industry. If a particular company has a reputation for paying low and only employing casually, just don't work for them; especially if you can do something else to bring in income (in my case lecturing or admin for a uni).

If young TAFE graduates simply didn't apply for crappy OE jobs, the crappy OE jobs will dissapear over time. It's all supply and demand. The other side of the coin is the price you charge for your services, it has to be enough.

Having also set up and run, and sold, for a handsome profit, my own business, before the age of 30, i strongly suggest the following principals to guide young coaches... and i think they can be applicable to the OE industry:

1. Get qualified, not just in coaching / OE but also another area as your 'backup' career

2. Stick to your principals. If a job is good, but pays bad, don't take the job. You have to make a living, it's not a hobby or a life style it's a career.

3. Committ only to a workplace that will committ too you.

4. All training should be paid for by employer, they should also subsidise re-qualifications. If they don't, find one that does and move on.

5. The real money is in running the business. Get into it ASAP, charge more and provide more than your competitors. Treat your staff well, employ full-time, go with a blend of experience and youth.

6. Always be prepared to walk away from a bad situation, and, without resorting to defamation, make sure as many people in the industry know WHY you left a particular employer.

My .02c

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Tracey P Guest	Re: Comes a Time Reply #92 - Apr 29^th, 2004 at 9:40pm hey Johnsy, have you also read the "Becoming an Outdoor Instructor" forum topic...its happening all over the place - yet again!!! Tracey P
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Johnsy

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Re: Comes a Time
Reply #93 - May 8^th, 2004 at 10:36am

Yeh... Same old same old... But has anything changed from these forums, no I don't think so, other than maybe wising a few people up who may have otherwise been burnt. I do find it interesting however that people are experiencing similar abuse and malpractice in other industries but it appears to be still in sporting and general recreation areas. At a time when Australia is second to the USA in the unhealthy lifestyles and obesity issues you would think that the government and other beurocratic authorities would be spending more time, money and energy in making the health and recreation industries work more effectively but that is not part of their agenda, making the population more dependent on them is and the people are falling for it. Until the employees of the outdoor ed/rec industries realise that they must become one voice then nothing will change. And until employers/operators become more ethical, responsible and sustainable then the status-quo will continue. It really doesn't matter to me as I don't work in free lance or mainstream outdoor ed/rec anymore and probably never will again, I just wanted people to know what's going on so others may not fall into the traps I did and to generate some debate and possibly some solutions about how we might be able to change the culture. Maybe I was too ambitious or maybe this is the start of a change that won't occur for many years who knows? I do know that there "Comes a Time" when change is inevitable.
Cheers,
Johnsy
Wink

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N.mahikanth

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Re: Comes a Time
Reply #94 - Aug 4^th, 2004 at 3:54pm

Quote:

Nick,

I love your enthusiasm. I know there are a lot of cynics out there, but don't let them get to you. There are also a lot of people out there that have greatly benefitted and enjoyed their time in outdoor rec/ed (myself included). Generally speaking, I don't think being a guide/instructor in the outdoors makes a fabulous long term career (there are a few exceptions), but I do think it makes a great stepping stone. And that's not to say that without enthusiasm and effort we can't continue to improve the outdoor employment environment. I wish you all the very best for your future travels and adventures. Stay happy and healthy.

Cheers,

SimonR

Grin

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Old_Slalom_Boater

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Doh!!!

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Brisbane, Queensland
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Re: Comes a Time
Reply #95 - Aug 17^th, 2004 at 1:19pm

In Queensland there is an effort to introduce an Industrial Award for those involved in the outdoors industry. Through much consultation this is now on Draft #6. If you are interested check out http://www.qorf.org.au/app/index.asp?page=currentnews#award

There is also an opportunity to make some comments.

Just thought that you may be interested.

Old boaters never die, it's just the thermals that make them smell that way.

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guy

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Re: Comes a Time
Reply #96 - Aug 19^th, 2004 at 8:23pm

Hi Guys,

I read this thread with interest.

I am an MD of a mid size Travel business employing 60 people FT and about ten PT. We are succesful, two years old and turning over about $60m AUD a year. Yet, in common with much of the travel industry - we make very little profit and the largest amount of cash goes on employees.

We are a mainstream travel business but my passion has always been the outdoors and in about a years time, I am considering moving back to NZ where my gf is from to start a family outside of the city.

So i am in a fortunate position, as a result of a bit of luck and a lot of hard work and spending the last fifteen years of my life in an office - that I now have the experience and cash to set up a business of my own on a fairly large scale.

As I seem to spend most of my spare cash on Outdoor pursuits, I feel that what i should do is try and start a business in that sector.

HOWEVER - the two things that makes me think twice are 1) that its almost impossible to actually make a profit in travel/tourism and from my exploratory research, Outdoor is even worse. and 2) i have no wish to deal on a day to day basis with staff who feel they are hard done by, even though when they 'took' the positions they appeared over the moon.

So for those of you bemoaning how little you are paid and how badly you are treated... let me tell you the bottom line for most travel businesses is less than 1% and I am forever having my staff moan about their low wages. However their perks are cheap travel, great holidays and a flexible working envirnoment. Will it let them put a deposit on a house? No...

But what can I do? There is no spare money to pay more wages...

I'm sure that many of your employers face the same issues... Have any of you sat down with your employers and asked them about the business and how its going, whether there is a way you can help with driving more business and be rewarded that way? Because in my experience its the guys who moan about their lot, who leave at 5pm, are aware of all of their rights, and none of their obligations...

I'm not saying all employers are like this - some may be complete pricks... but SOME may just be regular guys (and girls) who lie awake at night stressing out about how they will pay the bills and how they can try and make their employees lives a bit easier...

Just my tuppence worth.

Hope to see a few of you guys guiding me on a mountain some time soon...

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